Thank you for sharing this doc. The one thing that's missing is that it's hard to start a new troop from nothing and to sustain it. My daughter is in a troop and I'm in awe of all that the founding leaders are doing to get an independent girls troop running in parallel to a more established boys troop. When we were trying to select a troop, I spoke to leaders of several new girls troops who were hoping my daughter would join to get their troop slightly closer to having a critical number of scouts to do more interesting things. Only so many people can put in this type of effort and this several limits the paths through which girls can participate in BSA.
That said, having seen a few joint events, making an established boys troops coed would take thought, leadership, and guidelines. They had so many informal traditions and habits that would create potential problems if a few girls were added to a larger boys troop. As Jon Martin notes in another comment, this is the biggest danger of troops just becoming unofficially coed without policies or guidance.
My daughter's troop is now doing well and it would lose some of its strengths if it suddenly merged into a larger boys troop - A group of kids (irregardless of gender) who decide to come together to create something new is special and creates unique bonds. Still, I have trouble seeing how the current model is long-term sustainable.
Put another way. There should be data on how many people tried to found girls troops? How many registered a troop, but never got enough kids to hold regular programming? How many of those attempts folded after a year or two? We can learn from the successes, but justifying the current model also requires acknowledging how many BSA leader-hours are spent failing to create these new troops in situations where that effort could have been better spent making existing troops coed.
Looking forward to digging into this 31 page paper more in depth. We need Coed officially rolled out, many Packs and Troops are already doing it "under the table" and it is unsafe to start disregarding rules as a unit. As a past professional, the issues that would come across my desk and were always reported were youth on youth incidents. Normally bullying and normally where there was a large age difference. I am not an expert, but by what I saw, BSA needs to address the huge span of ages in the Scouts BSA program. It is too wide of an age gap and should be separated between middle and high schoolers. You may say it is a nonissue because patrols, buddies, tent mates should be within a couple years of each other in age. You are correct in theory, but many troops do not follow these rules or do not have the size to create strong separations internally. Also, YP inspections need to take place. Packs and Troops contently break YPT rules. For example, letting parents serve as contact volunteers without a background check. I don't care if Parent A is a great volunteer and has volunteered for years, we need him trained and background checked and this needs to be actually enforced on Packs and Troops with consequences for noncompliance.
I have a trans son who is not in Scouts (really doesn’t like camping at all), two daughters in a girls’ troop and a son in a boys’ troop. I have SO many mixed feelings about the gender split. I think it’s a flawed solution, but generally the right direction based on my experience.
There is just a completely different energy in the girls and boys troops, and I’m thrilled about the emotionally safe leadership opportunities presented by a girls’ troop that I just think would be dramatically different if the troops were merged.
Having sufficient critical mass for trans kids to feel actually safe and supported in a troop is one worry I have. There are so many unique questions added that I think most troops simply don’t have the ability to navigate, particularly without the training in place.
I would frankly love to see trans/enby/gnc/lgbtq troops become a third option. I believe I heard our council’s scout executive say in passing that there is one starting in our area.
My nephew left the Scouts BSA Troop he was in about the 7th or 8th grade. He said that he left because the sponsoring organization wanted the Boys Troop and the Girls Troop to have the same meetings and activities. One advantage of having the units separated is the Leadership opportunities. If there is one unit, there is one SPL. If they are two units, the Leadership opportunities are doubled. With Scouts seeing their peers at public school, some want something just for them. Some younger Scouts aren't ready to have all activities being coed; however, in most countries of the world, Scouting is a coed organization. I can see both perspectives. I am a Board Member of PFLAG and have a straight daughter (with two children), a gay son and a transgender son. I volunteer at my Council Eagle Desk processing Eagle Applications. I also am involved in the units sponsored by the United Methodist Church in the Western Jurisdiction (basically the Western States) as the Jurisdictional Scouting Ministry Coordinator. Locally, I am the Placer District Advancement Chair. In 2022, we had 83 Eagle Scouts.
Thank you for sharing this doc. The one thing that's missing is that it's hard to start a new troop from nothing and to sustain it. My daughter is in a troop and I'm in awe of all that the founding leaders are doing to get an independent girls troop running in parallel to a more established boys troop. When we were trying to select a troop, I spoke to leaders of several new girls troops who were hoping my daughter would join to get their troop slightly closer to having a critical number of scouts to do more interesting things. Only so many people can put in this type of effort and this several limits the paths through which girls can participate in BSA.
That said, having seen a few joint events, making an established boys troops coed would take thought, leadership, and guidelines. They had so many informal traditions and habits that would create potential problems if a few girls were added to a larger boys troop. As Jon Martin notes in another comment, this is the biggest danger of troops just becoming unofficially coed without policies or guidance.
My daughter's troop is now doing well and it would lose some of its strengths if it suddenly merged into a larger boys troop - A group of kids (irregardless of gender) who decide to come together to create something new is special and creates unique bonds. Still, I have trouble seeing how the current model is long-term sustainable.
Put another way. There should be data on how many people tried to found girls troops? How many registered a troop, but never got enough kids to hold regular programming? How many of those attempts folded after a year or two? We can learn from the successes, but justifying the current model also requires acknowledging how many BSA leader-hours are spent failing to create these new troops in situations where that effort could have been better spent making existing troops coed.
Really interesting points, and some great questions. Appreciate you weighing in.
Looking forward to digging into this 31 page paper more in depth. We need Coed officially rolled out, many Packs and Troops are already doing it "under the table" and it is unsafe to start disregarding rules as a unit. As a past professional, the issues that would come across my desk and were always reported were youth on youth incidents. Normally bullying and normally where there was a large age difference. I am not an expert, but by what I saw, BSA needs to address the huge span of ages in the Scouts BSA program. It is too wide of an age gap and should be separated between middle and high schoolers. You may say it is a nonissue because patrols, buddies, tent mates should be within a couple years of each other in age. You are correct in theory, but many troops do not follow these rules or do not have the size to create strong separations internally. Also, YP inspections need to take place. Packs and Troops contently break YPT rules. For example, letting parents serve as contact volunteers without a background check. I don't care if Parent A is a great volunteer and has volunteered for years, we need him trained and background checked and this needs to be actually enforced on Packs and Troops with consequences for noncompliance.
Thanks for sharing this, Jon! Really interesting to hear about your past experiences.
I have a trans son who is not in Scouts (really doesn’t like camping at all), two daughters in a girls’ troop and a son in a boys’ troop. I have SO many mixed feelings about the gender split. I think it’s a flawed solution, but generally the right direction based on my experience.
There is just a completely different energy in the girls and boys troops, and I’m thrilled about the emotionally safe leadership opportunities presented by a girls’ troop that I just think would be dramatically different if the troops were merged.
Having sufficient critical mass for trans kids to feel actually safe and supported in a troop is one worry I have. There are so many unique questions added that I think most troops simply don’t have the ability to navigate, particularly without the training in place.
I would frankly love to see trans/enby/gnc/lgbtq troops become a third option. I believe I heard our council’s scout executive say in passing that there is one starting in our area.
Wow, you really do have a unique perspective on all sides of this. Thank you for sharing!
My nephew left the Scouts BSA Troop he was in about the 7th or 8th grade. He said that he left because the sponsoring organization wanted the Boys Troop and the Girls Troop to have the same meetings and activities. One advantage of having the units separated is the Leadership opportunities. If there is one unit, there is one SPL. If they are two units, the Leadership opportunities are doubled. With Scouts seeing their peers at public school, some want something just for them. Some younger Scouts aren't ready to have all activities being coed; however, in most countries of the world, Scouting is a coed organization. I can see both perspectives. I am a Board Member of PFLAG and have a straight daughter (with two children), a gay son and a transgender son. I volunteer at my Council Eagle Desk processing Eagle Applications. I also am involved in the units sponsored by the United Methodist Church in the Western Jurisdiction (basically the Western States) as the Jurisdictional Scouting Ministry Coordinator. Locally, I am the Placer District Advancement Chair. In 2022, we had 83 Eagle Scouts.
Thanks for sharing your perspective here, Frank.
Great point, Eric. Thanks for sharing this perspective.